Moral Obligations

SAM
1/31/02 4:20 PM		 1 out of 16


Mike:

I feel your replies are elegant but somewhat hedonistic. I am still of the opinion that my sitting here wallowing in content and luxury meditating about beings of light while half the the world's running around bare-arsed with no food isn't quite good enough.

My point is still valid. I'm such a lazy bugger that I find it difficult to start doing anything even at the local level. I know all this stuff about eternal beings and so on - I've probably had more ecstatic visions than you've had hot dinners. But it isn't good enough without the moral imperative and it's this latter which is troubling me.



DINA
1/31/02 5:39 PM		 2 out of 16

Maybe Mikes ideas of what he wants to dream of are hedonistic to you....
Your dream and mine, would obviously not be material things.. HOWEVER.. why couldn't the same principles apply to what we want to see in this world?
What if we wanted to see the inner city kids go to college... couldn't this idea of Mikes be applied there?
Think about it...... Your idea, changed into words, inspiring actions, the end result......??????????
Love,
Dina



ERIC
1/31/02 11:30 PM		 3 out of 16

well,I don't think you can have a dream for some one else--they have to have their own dream.You could have the dream to work with inner city kids but unless you're in the city it probably won't have much of a chance.I think tho you could dream of moving to the city and probably do it.You could probably do it without dreaming about it too tho,just get on a bus. I think mike's trying to point outthat in fact we are probably held back from achieving what we want by fears etc.I agree with that but It falls apart when we try to obtain something so far from our present historical circumstance.I mean everything has a price,as we mature we start doing some accounting and decide somethings aren't worth it.Is it necessry to have another gas guzzling vehicle on the earth?The fact it's not just another value system,The choices we make impact others like you brought up in the very 1st thread



MOM
2/1/02 8:25 AM		 4 out of 16

My moral obligation is to work with my "Universal Directive" to create something from my dreams, so that I can effectively demonstate to my children, and granddaughter that peace comes from within. Part of my peace comes from my clay(time alone), the other part comes from my family("We gather together to ask the Lord's blessing","When ever two or more of you are gathered in my name, there is love.")
I have a favorite quote, that I think says it all:
"Love and time -- those are the only two things in all the world and all of life that cannot be bought but only spent." --Gary Jennings



LUCY
2/2/02 1:47 AM		 5 out of 16

SAM, Can I come over to your house seems you eat and dream well....lol...Really, DINA the end is happiness????? yes.... ERIC,If only money did'nt rule the world we would develop solar and electric cars...DoCal;memom,Love=Time= Divine....Thanks you know your one of a kind....Moral Oligation...Here it is..."REMEMBER"



DINA
2/2/02 6:09 PM		 6 out of 16

There is nothing to remember if the past does not exist. If only the present exists then we must live here. As for the mystery of the future? I do not believe it has been created yet......
The end is what you make it.
Love,
Dina



ERIC
2/2/02 10:35 PM		 7 out of 16

lovespirit--either you could be a rap artist or write for dr.Bronners soap.Maybe you do!



LUCY
2/3/02 4:05 PM		 8 out of 16

ERIC, Evevy time i read your name i think In The Ocean....Are you a dolphin? lol...Thanks for the dream to be something new...i am not yet thats the place to start...Make a million on rhyumn that would be divine...Forget about place and time its only in the mind...Future love, is why many think women are from mars...Me, from venus, oh well sure i have a penis....But lol really is that a reason to put off today for an unknown tommorrow that may or may not be...By passing by the people that i see and not be in Love here and now...Whats the fear,Love?....In the moment with a stranger....are we not one....no...no more....lol...Please forgive me... i like to play....



CATHY
2/4/02 12:17 AM		 9 out of 16

LOLOL!



MIKE
2/6/02 5:01 PM		 10 out of 16

SAM – I don’t get what’s not sitting with you. Do you think it unproductive, unwise, or immoral for someone to be happy when someone else is starving? Would you rather everyone be unhappy until all are fed? I think the latter would be immoral, unwise, and unproductive. By all means, it would behoove the entire planet if we all “did what we could” to help out our fellow Beings of Light, and that would be far more than enough to correct any planetary imbalances, but why can’t we simultaneously help others AND ourselves? Why do you view these pursuits as mutually exclusive? Why not volunteer some of your time, some of your money, and some of your ideas, and ALSO, pursue the life of your own dreams (which is where I come in, along with my “art of living your dreams). I am here to talk about the latter, but this doesn’t negate the first.

Have I addressed your concerns or missed the point?



SAM
2/6/02 7:01 PM		 11 out of 16


Mike:
It's not really very complicated at all. I suppose I have difficulty seeing other creatures in mental or physical pain without wanting to do something about it. That's just a personal quirk, if you like. Sometimes I can actually do something, sometimes not, but I usually try. I subscribe neither to conventional Western religious belief nor to reincarnation and fatalism. I am quite happy with myself as I am. I do not have to accept either praise or blame. I probably just expressed myself badly on the subject.



ERIC
2/6/02 11:54 PM		 12 out of 16

I do agree that it is not productive to be unhappy while others are starving ,at the samr time if we are not made mor e fully aware the effects "our dreams" have on those who are paid slave labor wages to produce the content of our dreams I see that as denial.



SAM
2/7/02 6:21 PM		 13 out of 16


ERIC:

Couldn't have put it better.



MIKE
2/8/02 5:09 PM		 14 out of 16

I agree, I agree... with enlightenment, comes her sister, RESPONSIBILITY. It is all of our responsibilities to, again, at least “do what we can” (as opposed to devote/“sacrafice” our entire lives) in becoming aware of how our dreams, our work, and our own pursuits of happiness affect others. It is equally our duty to understand, to the best of our own abilities, given our own unique lives, exactly what our governments are doing, locally and globally, as extensions of who we are, because they are our extensions whether we like it or not. And as we find conflict within our own beliefs, or perhaps find that another’s happiness is indeed hampered (if not worse) so that we might play, then action (of course, invariably preceded by thought ;) must follow or we are just as culpable for their behavior. BUT, once we are doing what we can, doing our best on all fronts, it then becomes our RESPONSIBILITY to enjoy our lives, to have fun and be happy as we learn, lest we create an even bigger burden on friends and loved ones, and perhaps even on total strangers.



LUCY
2/8/02 11:43 PM		 15 out of 16

Each day i try and give something of value away to a complete stranger...Practicing random acts of kindness and senseless beauty...is a trademark of a creator...of love, peace and harmony....It is also a cosmic law that, In order to recieve you must first give...of yourself, your thoughts, time and energy...It amazes me the way in which all people precieve me now in public as i have grow to look with loving eyes to all...it is refected...the same...



ERIC
2/9/02 9:28 AM		 16 out of 16

Yes,but mike has proposed that we may materialize our beliefs without regard to our pasts---Our pasts are entertwined with those of every other being.And every other being is affected by our action,as we are affected by the actions of our governments etc.To say we can act apart from this web is not true.Yes,we can determine our attitude in the face of adversity ,yes we can have worthwhile goals,but can we achieve them by belief ?Nelson Mandela spent 27 years in prison and years of organizing and struggling against an unjust white regime ,with the help of thousands of others.Is he a fool for not just" believing" it could take place without the weight of historical forces leaning on apartheid?